Re the US riots in progress in DC right now: there are huge numbers of law enforcement there. Why don’t they start arresting the folks who are breaking the curfew?
Kitt Hod sadly, because they are white. If they were black, they'd all be arrested. It is an ugly, ugly thing.
The New Baker That’s a good question. In the recent past, when law enforcement has been outnumbered, it is hard for them to arrest people until the situation is made safe. Their first priority is getting the crowd safely dispersed and under control. Partly because of the (good) process and requirements we have here, arrest can be time consuming and difficult with large crowds.
My related question is: why were the federal law enforcement numbers for this “protest” not big enough to prevent this from happening.
This is a sad and angering day for all Americans-and all people worldwide -who believe in freedom, democracy and the rule of law.
Clifford Beshers Time will tell. Certainly, some officers are sympathizers; there are videos of them taking selfies with the invaders. The national guard of D.C. is under the command of the military and hence the president, whom I suspect has been slowing down every response he can. The FBI seems to be the agency that cleared the building. They are supposed to have some independence; Trump has been trying to force out Christopher Wray, who has been resistant to his manipulations.
I suspect the lack of arrests is also designed to prioritize defusing the situation. Every one of these seditionists is on camera. Biden's reported choice of Merrick Garland for Attorney General signals that they will be rounded up and prosecuted. You can look up his record regarding the bombing in Oklahoma City.
A secondary reason for the lack of arrests may be to finish the vote, secure the transition of power, and arrest and prosecute after Trump no longer has the power of pardon. There will surely be discussion of invoking the 25th Amendment, but I think everyone is leery of Pence as well.
Edit: Judge Garland's first name is Merrick, not Merritt.
Miraz Jordan @sku_b Thanks @toddgrotenhuis, @baker, @kitt and especially @cliffordbeshers for your responses. These are horrifying, if not unexpected events today, even for those of us in other countries.
Bruce Steinberg @kitt If they were black, they would have been shot on the Capitol steps.
Ron Chester Because it was all done by the time of the curfew, which was 6 pm EST. I don't think it was due to skin color. The idiots had already been pushed out of the Congress during daylight. The curfew started just after sundown.
Miraz Jordan @Ron The thing was, I was watching live coverage, and well after curfew started there were still people on the street, just standing there, making no attempt to leave. They were clearly there when they shouldn't have been.
Ron Chester That could be, you saw what you saw. I think the intent of the curfew was to prevent mobs from forming on the Hill after dark. They had moved off the Hill by sundown, from what I saw.
Khürt Williams @Bruce sadly. Yes. My daughter recalls the image of black unarmed teenager who was arrested during a peaceful protest in August.
Phil Guillory Definitely have to agree, very unfortunately, with because they are white. And not just that, they are also notoriously heavily armed white people. Every time there is a shooting, and gun control is once again brought up, people on the right say it's not the time to discuss gun control because we need to “focus on the crisis" (which of course, was wrought in no small part by the lack of gun control). And like clockwork, gun sales increase predictably every single time. So we're in a situation where Republicans have caved to gun nuts, who have become both more heavily armed and more extreme, and while for the politicians it seems to be more about spectacle and theater (because that gets them the attention and the votes), these particular individuals are itching to act. There is a lot we have to work through to get out of this mess, but from my observation this is also a very big part of it.
This was also known white supremacist group as well, and they've gotten repeated messaging from the president that he's on their side, so despite Washington DC's mayor requesting early support to prevent this, minimal support was provided (the president has also been attacking the Washington DC mayor in the past weeks, adding fuel to the fire).
Miraz Jordan @philly I agree that it is a very complex situation. This is a very challenging thing for the American people as a whole to deal with. I hope a leadership with appropriate skills can emerge and guide folks through this awful mess. (I'm referring especially to the whole fact vs fiction and conspiracy theory mess.)
Ron Chester I had it wrong. It was 52 arrests, of which 47 were for curfew violations. 14 police officers were admitted to hospitals for injuries they suffered today. I think the US Capitol Police were seriously outmanned by the number of intruders today. In 1998 one of their officers was killed in the line of duty & was the first African American to lie in state in the Capitol Rotunda before burial in Arlington National Cemetery. I have never heard of any complaints of racial profiling by the Capitol Police. I suspect they are all proud to serve on the Hill & deserve our respect and thanks. They certainly have mine.
Somewhere between 617,000 and 852,000 Americans died in the US civil war or from injuries incurred during the War. My hometown in central Illinois has two statues commemorating those lost lives. The Grand Army of the Republic was founded here in 1866 to commemorate those soldiers and its most lasting legacy was the founding of our annual observance of all veterans, originally called Decoration Day and now called Memorial Day, a national holiday at the end of May each year.
Miraz Jordan @Ron I’m far away and have no way or probably right to judge the actions of people in another country. Thanks for the info.
The New Baker You absolutely can and in my opinion should judge the violent mob and its members and their actions. Racism is racism, terrorism is terrorism and fascism is fascism. It doesn’t matter where these things take place. They are bad and wrong and destructive here just as they have been elsewhere and at different times in the history of the world.
And we as a country have a LOT of work to do to repair the harm and history, recent and long-standing, of domestic terrorism, racism and fascism in our country. Yesterday’s events are sadly just one example of our racist and violent history. Make no mistake: this was an attack not just on people and a building but also on the values that most Americans share, including decency, non-violence, the rule of law and democracy in these United States, our country.
There are many good people here, as there are all around the world. Unfortunately we haven’t had much political influence lately but that is changing hopefully. (Thank you to the majority of voters in Georgia and around the country!)
Miraz Jordan @baker I absolutely oppose racism, terrorism and fascism (and quite a few other -isms as well, for that matter). My problem is that I'm far away, part of a different culture and style of government and my (pretty strong) opinions are based on what I've been told and shown by media organisations.
I think those media are pretty reliable, but it's a mistake for me to trust them 100%. How do I know what their camera angles are hiding? What about when the commentary (police with batons drawn) doesn't match the picture I see of police but I can't see the batons?
I’m shocked that this mob has been stirred up by years / decades / centuries of lies and distortion and other factors and that they are attempting to derail what appears to be a legitimate exercise in democracy.
The other thing I was saying was that I can't impute the motives of law enforcement. I have very strong suspicions that some officers and or leaders treat people differently based on race or skin colour (that happens in my own country too), but I don’t know that's what drove the apparent difference in tactics.
We also need to factor in that the curfew was ordered by a female mayor. We know news media and commentators and others judge women differently from how they judge men (and race and other factors also weigh in). Perhaps she was attempting a more peaceful way to resolve the situation? These are things I don’t know and have little basis for judgment on.
Ron Chester Thanks for saying that, Miraz. I appreciate it & I also appreciate your humility & the fact that you always seem to want to learn things. There are so many experts on the Internet. I have my own opinions & preferences, but why should anyone care about those? I am only expert to some degree about double-entry bookkeeping, the music of Bob Dylan and ham radio. And on all three of those, there are people more expert than me. I'm still happy to be an American in a country that survived a devastating civil war and still remains one nation! 🇺🇸
Clifford Beshers Very well said and carefully considered. The process continues to unfold, with more violence threatened and Republican politicians denying there needs to be action, but huge corporations are now a) enforcing terms of service against violent rhetoric, and b) just announced, many have suspended ongoing political contributions, some unilaterally, but a number have withdrawn support from politicians championing existence of widespread voting fraud.
And some very courageous acts by Capitol Police have come to light, including one black officer who seems to have seen that the Senate was not yet cleared, so he pushed the lead protester and then led the mob on a wild goose chase. We want him to have all the medals we can mint.
Nine days. Expect more news, confusion, lies, distortions, worry. But also hope.